Curse

Chthon · Apr 19, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

People never seem to understand the beauty of Air of Superiority for a build like this.

I must admit that I don't understand it at first glance here. Care to explain?

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 19, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

[SY sin;AXIyI3xkBUNo+T3z+TM4VhMJ]

With an orders hero, you can pretty much spam "Dodge This!" every attack under Dark Fury. As ridiculous as the idea of screaming that every half second is, It's pretty insane damage wise.

Though generally, if you're going -solely- for SY!, sub "Dodge This!" for Air of Superiority,

Xenomortis · Apr 19, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I'd keep "Dodge this" and get rid of those two attack skills, take Air of Superiority and something else. Critical Defenses might be nice.

ele pl · Apr 19, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Crit defense is imo not needed, its pve build, you dont need that much defense at all, and its 1 second longer to cast before going into mob. Also hard to maintain between the battles.

Paul Dawg · Apr 19, 2009, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I've tested the bar in various HM zones and it is without a doubt the fastest SY-spamming build I've ever seen. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the greatest PvE-build in the history of GW, however. I find that it's still inferior to a d-slash warrior because although it can spam SY faster and more consistently, it doesn't have KD. You could add KD with [brawling headbutt], of course, but then you'd be out of PvE-only skills, because [critical agility] and obviously ["save yourselves!" (luxon)] are indispensable.

As for the attack skills--I agree that they don't do too much damage and that [golden phoenix strike] won't give you any double-strikes, but the combination DOES make sure that [critical agility] recharges endlessly (as long as it's not stripped), and the recharges are long enough that you're not constantly using them. If anyone has better ideas about what could go in those two slots, I'd be glad to hear them--but they have to be regular sin or war skills, not PvE-only skills. I wouldn't write off [critical defenses] quite as readily as most other people in this thread (because you're going to be taking a ton of hits), but then of course you're going to be doing even less damage.

Finally, to whoever said the build needs a buff: last I checked, [asuran scan] and [ebon battle standard of honor] are buffs. Between those two, I'd go with the latter. But, again, it would mean that you're going to be short on KD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Why not something like this?

[locust's fury]["for great justice!" (pve)][critical agility][critical eye][golden phoenix strike][critical strike]["save yourselves!" (luxon)]

... and then an open slot for whatever you'd like, [sunspear rebirth signet], [critical defenses], [pain inverter], [asuran scan], [ebon battle standard of honor], you name it. Just attack normally, and throw in [golden phoenix strike][critical strike] for assured critical hits whenever they're available.

English Warrior · Apr 19, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

build with a support damage hero would be good maybe with a D/N orders.

Super Igor · Apr 19, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

no matter how you buff it it would still be inferior to MS/DB, SY! is all good but I'd much rather be owning things too. :]

FoxBat · Apr 19, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

[Wild Blow] why are we even bothering with critical strike/eye?

People also need to get over MS already...

Paul Dawg · Apr 19, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Because [wild blow] drains all your adrenaline--kind of a downer in a build that's designed to spam SY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

[Wild Blow] why are we even bothering with critical strike/eye?

RadaArashi · Apr 20, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

with the increased double strikes and IAS I doubt you'll need critical eye/strike to renew your enchantments

FoxBat · Apr 20, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Because [wild blow] drains all your adrenaline--kind of a downer in a build that's designed to spam SY.

You just time it right after you've used the shout - it shouldn't be needed often to renew agility anyway. The more important function it does is to remove block stances that will really kill your adren build.

Nonetheless I also agree that you should usually get by on double strikes alone.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 20, 2009, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Or you can just use [Malicious Strike]. Seeing as it is PvE, and most hero builds nowadays involve someone with [enfeebling blood], it's not that hard to fill the condition without any skills on your bar causing conditions

Paul Dawg · Apr 20, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

The bar now looks like this:

[locust's fury]["for great justice!" (pve)][critical agility][critical eye]["save yourselves!" (luxon)][disrupting stab][distracting blow][pain inverter]

I subbed in [disrupting stab] and [distracting blow] for [golden phoenix strike]/[critical strike] in order to make up for the lack of KD, and you don't really need the attack skills because you get plenty of critical hits as it is.

Personally, I think it's a killer defensive bar. Go try it out. If you want to sub out [pain inverter] for something like [ebon battle standard of honor], I could see the logic in that, but [pain inverter] is infinitely useful when you're hero-henching, so I opted for it.

Bobby2 · Apr 20, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

You can run [locust's fury] because it's PvE and nobody gives a damn. Don't EVER be fooled into thinking that it's good.

My 2p.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

People never seem to understand the beauty of Air of Superiority for a build like this.

I think I do, recharge of [For Great Justice]. But guess what?

It only takes one Orders guy or [anthem of fury] Para to ensure I can keep up SY! - and that's on my MS/DB build, so FGJ! isn't even needed. Skill slot better spent on something else, imho.

Paul Dawg · Apr 20, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Ummm, yeah, ["save yourselves!" (luxon)] is a PvE-only skill. Obviously we're talking about PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You can run [locust's fury] because it's PvE and nobody gives a damn. Don't EVER be fooled into thinking that it's good.

Bobby2 · Apr 20, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

....right. My point was that it's kind of silly to try and devise an 'optimal' build for a decidedly horrible skill.

snaek · Apr 20, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

actually, locusts fury isn't that bad.
imo its superior than ms/db in nm...but fares much worse in hm.

its dps is more reliable than ms/db since its dmg output efficiency tops out as long as your hitting something. ms/db has its most efficient damage output only when db is activated. db is activated less often in nm since things die so fast. and of course, armour-ignoring dmg is less important in nm.

but this doesn't completely nullify its usefulness in hm. the advantage is obviously for better synergy with skills like [save yourselves], [order of pain], [mark of pain], etc.

better than ms/db? no, but definitely not a horrible skill.

riktw · Apr 20, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

[mark of fury] on my necro hero is fun on bosses, SY every 2 sec, or dodge this almost every attack.
kinda fun to see, some other sin said his GW did weard stuff, i kept saying "Dodge this"
i almost feld of my chair laughing

Xenomortis · Apr 20, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Finally, to whoever said the build needs a buff: last I checked, [asuran scan] and [ebon battle standard of honor] are buffs. Between those two, I'd go with the latter. But, again, it would mean that you're going to be short on KD.

Take an orders necro with either [Order of Pain] and [Dark Fury] or [Order of the Vampire]. Give him [Strength of Honor] too.
If it's a human, he can take [Great Dwarf Weapon] (solving the knockdown problem and giving extra damage] and [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]. That's buffing, taking Asuran Scan is just like adding icing. By all means take it if you can, icing is absolutely delicious.

Your crit rate shouldn't be a problem (you're attacking once a second, if not more).

Your only real problem is blocking. Stances could be ended if you invest in something like [Wild Strike] preceeded by whatever lead attack you want ([Golden Fox Strike] is unblockable). Or give someone [Rigor Mortis] and call its use.
Even [Wild Blow] could be used, as you'll regain that adren very quickly.

On builds like this, reactive crap such as [Pain Inverter] is wasteful. If you really want it, give it to someone else.

I'm beginning to quite like the idea of builds like this. Whilst it's not AoE (unlike DB spam), when combined with other physicals (also under the Orders), it doesn't need to be.

Super Igor · Apr 20, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You can run [locust's fury] because it's PvE and nobody gives a damn. Don't EVER be fooled into thinking that it's good.

My 2p.

I think I do, recharge of [For Great Justice]. But guess what?

It only takes one Orders guy or [anthem of fury] Para to ensure I can keep up SY! - and that's on my MS/DB build, so FGJ! isn't even needed. Skill slot better spent on something else, imho.

only that fgj doesn't take up a hero slot. ;p